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"Dynamic Pricing" : le texte de Backstreets.

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Je suis en train préparer un texte sur le "dynamic pricing" et les ventes de billets aux US pour ma page facebook. C'est toujours en cours. 🙂
Le débat a déjà commencé dans le topic dédié à la tournée US mais il me semble que le sujet mérite un fil dans l'espace central du forum.
Pour les anglophones, je suggère ce billet de Chris Philipps (éditeur de Backstreets) :
FREEZE-OUT
Lord won't you tell us, tell us what does it mean?
It's four in the morning and raining. We're feeling old, listening to the outcries of fans feeling similarly betrayed by last week's ticket sales, and remembering that things were different a decade ago.
Because we know our audience, the fans, and count ourselves among them, it feels unnecessary to recap here what transpired on Wednesday when Ticketmaster's first U.S. onsales for the 2023 Tour left many Bruce Springsteen fans in a state of shocked disbelief.
But if you need a catch-up we can point you to Variety, industry observer Bob Lefsetz, or to practically any news outlet of your choice to get the broad strokes of what happened. Call it what you like: market pricing, dynamic pricing, surge pricing, Platinum pricing. Just don't call it The New Normal.
Please.
From our point of view, this so-called premium, algorithm-driven model violates an implicit contract between Bruce Springsteen and his fans, one in which the audience side of the equation appeared to truly matter — and in fact was crucial. We believed it because he told us repeatedly it was true. We can imagine Lefsetz and others, perhaps, snickering here, but we still know our audience: we've all been made to feel we're part of an ongoing conversation, one in which we were all "in conce a vital element of the formula: "If you're here, and we're here… they're here.”
If you're not here… where does that leave them?
This past week, too many Springsteen fans got thrown to the wolves, pushed aside in a way that seems as unfathomable as it was avoidable. The artist has maintained that he understands the essential role of his audience. How, then, did we end up facing, in far too many instances, prices for tickets that exceeded normalcy, then departed from reality entirely by orders of magnitude?
One might cite inflation, market value, or any number of factors; we'd argue that it can't be "market forces” when supply is purposefully obfuscated, then manipulated by the platform of distribution. But from our point of view, it boils down to the stark difference between inside and outside. So many fans who have always gone to the shows, who have always been part of This Thing of Ours, now can't go, will not be inside, will not be part of the conversation, purely because they can't pay the cost to see the Boss.
Bruce Springsteen tickets have been historically and notoriously difficult to obtain. That's the nature of the beast, with so many wanting to witness the power and the glory of rock 'n' roll, and relatively few seats to hold them. But the issue has rarely been the money.
Over many years, there have been continuous, clear efforts made by the Springsteen camp to keep things fair and as fan-centric as possible, to foil scalpers, to give average concert-goers and fans the best shot at a reasonable price in a world where bots run rampant and scalpers rule.
For decades, Springsteen kept his ticket prices significantly lower than what the market might bear, which felt in keeping with his brand, his stated philosophies, his belief in community, and his clear view of what a concert was supposed to be, as for three hours or so — and sometimes more — he and the band gave us a glimpse of a better world.
The tent over E Street has always been big, inviting, and open, but what about the question he began to ask in 2012… are we missing anybody? After this week, it sure appears the answer has changed.
What were we to think when we made it through the queue on Wednesday morning to find that tickets — initial sales, not resales — were on offer for thousands of dollars? In the past, no matter how difficult tickets were to score, persistence paid off. Now, it seems, persistence just ratchets the algorithm up another notch. Or four.
Surely, these multi-thousand-dollar prices were not intended or anticipated, many of us thought. Some assert the algorithm got out of control — are we sure that it was ever in control? We'd never expect Ticketmaster to balk at making money, but surely, many believed, Springsteen would put a stop to it and demand adjustments to the system, if not an overhaul, before the next onsale. Friday came with a general repeat of circumstances and even more fans in disbelief.
As recently as last month's European offering, we've seen Ticketmaster cancel an onsale when conditions called for it and reschedule for the following day. So if these prices were unintentional, it's hard to imagine a good reason for the second onsale, let alone a third. For the ticketsellers, the end result of dynamic pricing must be a feature and not a bug.
And that is a foundation-breaking, worldview-shaking notion.
Wait a minute. We thought it was raining. Is it not raining? That might be a takeaway from data Ticketmaster just shared with us, suggesting that the rain is an illusion. Variety reports these Ticketmaster-provided stats, a series of figures that don't quite add up, that obscure more than clarify. If nothing else, the data shared say nothing about outrageously priced tickets fans declined in horror, only telling us what did sell. In the end, these numbers only leave us with more questions. The biggest one being, if it's not raining, why are we getting soaked?
At a time when we needed to feel hope and promise — when the world seems on fire, when we've suffered through escalating deception, greed, fear, isolation, racial strife, violence, "alternative facts,” democracy literally under threat, and an ongoing global pandemic — we're left feeling further disillusioned, downhearted, and dispirited.
But the ideals Springsteen's music puts forward — they're still alive, aren't they? Whether in the grooves or in concert, wherever those guitars ring out? In our shared spirit? If one can't say yes — if only for a few hours every so often — then maybe the magic really is just tricks.
Springsteen has been paid a king's ransom, and we've never begrudged him that, either. Not the reported $500 million sale of his life's work, which hardly fazed us, not the Broadway prices, not the Jeep commercial. We believe in the value of his music, his work; those other transactions and the arenas in which they take place feel beyond our purview.
What happens in the actual physical arenas, where every few years Springsteen and his audience come together to create something bigger than all of us — and everybody has a decent shot to be part of it, at a reasonable price — that's something that remains worth fighting for. Because in rock 'n' roll, as we've come to believe, one plus one does equal three.
It still does, doesn't it?
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https://www.facebook.com/French-River-81-100462135018927/?modal=admin_todo_tour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQq-HgkxwOE

Je trouve ce billet doux de backstreet remarquablement pondéré dans ses réflexions et argumentations. Au lieu de simplement lâcher du fiel, il pose les bonnes questions au seul endroit où ça (nous) fait mal.

J'ai peut être raté un truc mais : Ticketmaster a fait du dynamic pricing sur certaines dates européennes, je l'ai vu à Dublin notamment. C'est en parallèle de la vente normale.

Pourquoi en Europe c'est passé relativement inaperçu et aux USA ça gueule ? Le volume de places ?

Citation de marcolas le 26 juillet 2022, 17 h 26 min

J'ai peut être raté un truc mais : Ticketmaster a fait du dynamic pricing sur certaines dates européennes, je l'ai vu à Dublin notamment. C'est en parallèle de la vente normale.

Pourquoi en Europe c'est passé relativement inaperçu et aux USA ça gueule ? Le volume de places ?

1 - parce que là justement c'est pas en parallèle de la vente normale, c'est la vente normale

2 - parce que les sommes atteintes n'ont rien à voir je pense

 

Exact, en Europe (sauf pour les deux stades au R-U), le phénomène est resté marginal (en nombre de tickets) et aussi en terme de prix (grosso modo, un petit quota des meilleures places à 500 euros). Il faut aussi prendre ne compte qu'il n'y a pas de monopole de la vente dans la plupart des pays européens. Notons que le plus grand des hasard, ce sont les concerts qui associent Live Nation et une forme de monopole pour TM qui ont le plus pratiqué les "platinium" (d'ailleurs plutôt que le dynamic pricing).

 

C'est d'autant plus criant aux USA que le dynamic pricing fait bouger les prix en permanence (y compris les places déjà présentes dans un panier). Ce phénomène s'accompagne des ventes "verified resale" (du scalping légalisé sur TM) qui font encore plus gonfler les prix. Bref, cela donne des tarifs absurdes.

PS : sans parler des "frais de service" de TM qui sont du vol de grand chemin.

https://www.facebook.com/French-River-81-100462135018927/?modal=admin_todo_tour

Petite question en passant. Si c’est bien de la vente en direct … et pas le truc habituel de TM. Mise en vente 10h00, sold out 10h01 … ho toutes les places à vendre sur le site secondaire à des prix de ouf …

Je me souviens en 2007 au MSG … quand je voyais tout ce qu’il y avait encore en vente à 30mn du début du concert .. je me suis dit .. la salle va être vide !!!

Bref je reviens .. donc si c’est de la vente en direct … c’est quoi ce logo : Verified Fan Official ? Je trouve cela plus que louche. Et me réconforte dans notre système, certes pas parfait, mais chez GDP, Fnac et cie les serveurs rament .. mais les prix sont stables !!!!

Ma petite signature !

En surfant sur les divers commentaires de Twitter sur le sujet qui nous préoccupe, j'ai trouvé cette vidéo récente de HBO (mars 2022). "John Oliver explains why concert tickets are so expensive, who’s making money off of them".

C'est édifiant comme le système Ticketmaster est vicieux et pourri. John Oliver la raconte avec humour mais toute la problèmatique expliquée avec d'autres artistes est celle qui est en train de se passer sur les tickets de Bruce. Puissance 10.

https://youtu.be/-_Y7uqqEFnY

Cette arnaque existe depuis des années. Sur tous les artistes. ça a empiré depuis la fusion Ticketmaster-LiveNation.

D'ailleurs, le Représentant du NJ Bill Pascrell veut légiférer. ça fait des années qu'il veut instaurer sa loi "Boss Act". Et en ce moment, avec ce qu'il se passe il est remonté comme un coucou.

Il faudrait faire un glossaire des ventes sur TM.

"Verified fan" : il fallait s'inscrire à l'avance en classant 5 concerts (au plus). J'ai classé Detroit en 1, j'ai obtenu le statut de "Verified fan" pour ce concert. Je devrai donc pouvoir participer à la vente dès 10h. Sans code "Verified fan", tu n'as pas accès à la vente avant 15h.

Combiné avec le "dynamic pricing", cela signifie que pour les concerts les plus demandés, seuls les "verified fan" ont une petite chance d'accéder au prix face value.

A ma connaissance, seul le concert de Philadelphie est "sold out" (on dira pour l'instant). Les autres ne le sont pas : l'idée n'est de vendre les billets au plus vite mais au plus cher. Le "dynamic pricing", c'est une "enchère à l'envers"... rien de vraiment neuf (sauf évidemment que tout ça repose sur un algorithme).

https://www.facebook.com/French-River-81-100462135018927/?modal=admin_todo_tour

Pendant ce temps là, au bar PMU …

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Ma petite signature !
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